Support Desk • Double charges
davidjearly wrote:
Well this is one of the first posts of yours that I disagree with!
Damn... I was on such a roll. 
davidjearly wrote:
I do appreciate finally getting the bundle in my hands, but I am still rather dismayed by John's posts. It would seem that the only time he feels the need to respond is when there is an argumentative comment to make.
And what does that tell you? John can't do what you want him to do... is that not abundantly clear? He either doesn't feel like he should, or it's just not in his character to do it. Either way, he can't.
But in any case, perhaps that's one of the reasons he hired Step. You guys are making this personal... you want John to apologize. It's not John, it's MacHeist. I personally think that MacHeist has apologized to a satisfactory level at this point, if by no other way than to hire the guy that was trying to help us out so much in the first place. All John can really do at this point is stay out of this thread... and maybe that's exactly what he's doing. Forgive me, but you guys are demanding too much. It's a business that made a mistake and has fixed it, if not in complete reality then at least in a guaranteed end. Look at what has been done in the first place (the Heist, the charitable contributions, the happy developers and users) and after the fact (we've been made whole, they hired Step, Step has apologized on how long it took to bring this to a close, etc...). Seriously, guys... he's not your wife and she didn't cheat on you You wanted a bundle, you got it, you got overcharged and it has or will be taken care of, you wanted an apology and Step provided it, people were concerned about developers' well-being and that has been satisfied. Come on now... light one up, sit back, and enjoy your new software.
I am convinced that if you really go over the history of the last couple of days, and you let go some of the frustration you've had, and you recognize that John != MacHeist, you'll have to agree (at least some decent level) that we're effectively done here.
So... ignoring everyone being obnoxious and complaining or yelling at people complaining...
When do I find out if I'm going to actually get the bundle I tried to purchase?
At the risk of pissing off Step, I would suggest PM'ing him. He seems to be the best point of contact for help. However, he's very busy and MH hasn't actually fixed their support issues yet, they've just helped them out by hiring Step. Keep your expectations at the reasonable level considering his workload. Remember that he's come in to help at the end... go easy on him
Last edited by ewiplayer (January 28, 2008 11:04 am)
Step is manning the macheist [at-no-spam-please] whistler-app.com e-mail address.
ewiplayer - nearly had me there. I think the company and the person got blended, in a large part by John weighing in in the manner he chose. I don't expect to see an apology for that anytime here soon - it's clearly not his style.
My point was always that an apology would have gone a long way if he (or someone) had done it as soon as they had a hint of the errors.
apolaine wrote:
My point was always that an apology would have gone a long way if he (or someone) had done it as soon as they had a hint of the errors.
I don't disagree... but eventually we have to bow to reality, and if we recognize that it's MacHeist we wanted the apology from, I think we got it, and I think you agree. We can all feel better
yes I see what you mean ewiplayer... But, yes even the ewiplayer cultist has a different view once in awhile...
OK, we'll have to accept that we got what we paid for and John seems content with hiring step (again great hire). I do think there is a difference between hiring step to help out and the apology. It doesn't even need to come from John but anyone of the directorate. THEY are MACHEIST! Not step at least not in any "official PR spokesman" way, he also hasn't been there from the beginning when the original problems started.
Yes, he was a great hire but in the end he's help. Soo, he apologized as a moderator and as a "clean up the charges guy" but I feel it's up to the buck stops here honchos to issue a letter of explanation/apology. I know, I know I've become stuck on this and I'm being difficult but that's how I see it.
We got what we paid for and the charges were removed so we have no more BIG beef but then again I'm OK and in the end it worked itself out, there's just this last piece of understanding missing... Again I've harped enough on this point and (hopefully for you guys) won't write/gripe about it anymore... it's just ... well a little bit of (bitter) aftertaste is left...
Not upset anymore maybe disappointed is the word I'm looking because I expected more (too much?) of macheist
I guess that's the best way for me to put it, but I'm sure you guys will phrase it better
BTW: apolaine,
>My point was always that an apology would have gone a long way if he (or >someone) had done it as soon as they had a hint of the errors.
As we've pointed out many times and hopefully it's sunk in....
Last edited by phillyman (January 28, 2008 11:59 am)
Man, I thought I was tough!
Alright, maybe we can look at it a slightly different way. If someone above Step doesn't apologize, maybe you can see that as MH didn't go an extra mile that you, yourself defined.
You really need to see MacHeist as a different thing than the trio that are on the front page. What if John quit yesterday? It's pretty tough for you to get an apology from him then, right? Would you then be happy with no apology at all?
Well, this is my last post on this subject, cuz there's not much more to say (well, there wasn't much more to say 18 posts ago, but...) and I think you're basically done as well.
I guess... this is an extra mile that you're defining. John doesn't have to do it, MacHeist has already done it. He's simply not beholden to your desires and neither are you to his. He isn't your neighbour, whose dog crapped on your lawn, he's an employee of a company and that company has done their diligence.
Last edited by ewiplayer (January 28, 2008 11:57 am)
ewiplayer wrote:
he's an employee of a company and that company has done their diligence.
He's a founder, and that makes all the difference.
yes, we're both written out and it really just is semantics. Yes, the extra mile that I expected is missing and no they don't have to do it but it certainly helps to keep the clients very happy...
Macheist might consist of more people but I don't know how many and the only people I can hold accountable are those listed under about>staff. They get all the credit and grief and I also hope for those roles a good chunk of the change, if not well...
The way I look at it is that they manage/run the show and only they can fix the operational problems so only a letter from them carries REAL weight. I appreciate steps kind words and work and if signs his post as "chief spokesperson of macheist.com" then I know that macheist management "got it" until then... Well now I'm just repeating myself and I NOW HAVE to quit. This is even getting ridiculous for me
See John isn't the employee for me but the boss of the company (or on the board), step is an employee THAT's the difference.
But then again this isn't a full time all year round company so I'm in all likelihood being unreasonable. As of this note I've made my peace with the issue.
Cheers and what a ride it's been
apolaine wrote:
ewiplayer wrote:
he's an employee of a company and that company has done their diligence.
He's a founder, and that makes all the difference.
D**N too slow and long apolaine beat me to the punch...
That is THE difference!
You guys are too much.
You're saying that every company in the world, for every single mistake they make, you expect the founder (or one of them) to make a personal and public apology? That's what PR departments, or customer service departments are for.
Or are you just making a special case out of MacHeist? If you are, then you have to ask yourself why... Why do you care that John personally answer for this but you don't push Bell's CEO to personally answer for every billing screw up? You would ask for something from "Bell", the company, but here you're asking for something from "John", the person.
Seriously, you guys are just too damn much
ewiplayer wrote:
You guys are too much.
You're saying that every company in the world, for every single mistake they make, you expect the founder (or one of them) to make a personal and public apology?
Only when they decide to appear personally on a forum and insult their customers.
OK granted, but I'm not asking for john and it should be said he's the only that's around that I've seen, I'm asking it from the directorate or an official "spokesperson". You can argue that this is what step was hired for. Although it wasn't spelled out and he's still listed as a moderator...
I know we're asking a LOT and by now being (little) unreasonable. Bell CEO hmmm no but if I'm fair I should be. At the same time how many employees does macheist have? We really don't know, officially I know of the three top honchos, the actress/sister (?) in the clips and the people in the mini heists and newly employed steps (I still think he was trying to just help out and finally got something for his efforts.) He's role has never been clarified nor does it have to be, for me he's an extra pair of hands helping sort out the charges and NOT being the spokesperson.
Other than that, yes were unreasonable that's why we have macs
ewiplayer wrote:
You guys are too much.
You're saying that every company in the world, for every single mistake they make, you expect the founder (or one of them) to make a personal and public apology? That's what PR departments, or customer service departments are for.
Or are you just making a special case out of MacHeist? If you are, then you have to ask yourself why... Why do you care that John personally answer for this but you don't push Bell's CEO to personally answer for every billing screw up? You would ask for something from "Bell", the company, but here you're asking for something from "John", the person.
Seriously, you guys are just too damn much
Yes, you have a point about singling out John. However, you really can't compare MacHeist to say, Bell. The difference is, Bell's CEO would not take part in discussions in their online forum, and if he did, it would be one 'stickied' apology, not replies I'm 'sick of your BS' and 'you will be banned'.
John chose to come into this forum, specifically this thread and respond. Instead of apologising, he chose to demean and threaten his customers who were rightfully complaining about the poor support.
I agree that he did not have to come into the thread at all, and perhaps we shouldn't have expected that. However, again he has shown an interest in participating in discussions here before so this was not too much to ask. MacHeist could have appointed someone early on to deal with the issues (which have been going on for over 2 weeks), but they didn't.
David
Last edited by davidjearly (January 28, 2008 12:42 pm)
Perhaps we can all club together and buy John a copy of How To Win Friends and Influence People.
<Removing Gloves>
Apolaine, John called your last post BS, and while that isn't the best word to use, it was dead on. Dead on. You were speculating and completely full of crap. You told him to basically open his books as well... man, you're starting to walk in to a glass house, and you're throwing stones at the same time.
You've lost me. You guys are totally making this personal, which is ridiculous. Completely and totally ridiculous.
They've done their diligence, and I hope to hell that they've moved on. You guys should do the same. The very *last* thing that John should do is spend another byte dealing with this thread. He should not apologize personally and he shouldn't post another single solitary character. Doing so would be stupid.
You're demanding he apologize for being an ass... he doesn't have to apologize for that! You think he's an ass? You're really pissed, and really principled about it? Don't buy next year. Plain and bloody simple.
I think he's acted like an ass as well, but so have a number of other people here (I might even be one of those)... we don't demand apologies from them, it would seem.
I was with you... all the way, and then you guys crossed the line from rational, needing your problem solved, to wanting a pound of flesh for some sort of perception of personal damage. Mad... completely mad.
He doesn't have to apologize for acting like an ass... dear lord, it's a business. He's not your congressman, he's not your dad, your brother or even your damned dog.
I'm sorry, but I've got to go... this left the track a while ago and I tried to see if I could help bring it back, to see if we could at least finish things off with a nice happy conclusion, but clearly that's not going to happen. And as a result of this painful turn of events, I'm starting to lose my happy little state of mind, and I've got new software to play with.
So long folks. Perhaps we'll meet up again next year, but I truly hope you boycott it next time around because that would be the principled thing to do (not because I don't want to talk to you again). Your current attitude really should demand that you do.
How the hell did I go from being totally in there and now dying to leave... ??
apolaine wrote:
Perhaps we can all club together and buy John a copy of How To Win Friends and Influence People.
I have far too many friends and I'm doing my best to scale that back at this point. 
This thread has gotten waay past the ridiculous point. There were several threads that were related to support issues and I've apologized for the issues customers were experiencing in most, if not all of them. Of course I want everything to go 100% smoothly but in reality that will never happen and it's unfortunate when things don't work out perfectly.
Now while I apologize for issues people have been having, I'm definitely not going to apologize for anything I've said in this thread. And that's why it seems like there are a few of you saying the same crap over and over. I came in to try to let you know that things were in the process of being fixed and when I didn't have the exact answers or the exact estimates that people wanted (because I didn't have that info) people started attacking me. And I refuse to put up with it.
And apolaine, I'm totally going to call you out for being a hypocrite... you've been under the assumption that MacHeist screws developers, yet you decided to buy a bundle anyway. But thankfully, now some of the developers are coming to our rescue (thanks much, Sophia and Jerry) so the ridiculous misconceptions are finally being put to rest.
johnred wrote:
And apolaine, I'm totally going to call you out for being a hypocrite... you've been under the assumption that MacHeist screws developers, yet you decided to buy a bundle anyway. But thankfully, now some of the developers are coming to our rescue (thanks much, Sophia and Jerry) so the ridiculous misconceptions are finally being put to rest.
That I can understand. It was, however, only after I started looking to see if others had had similar billing issues with MH that I found some of the conversations (i.e., Gus's blog post in the main) about MH1 and the cut developers do or do not get. I'd already tried to order my bundle by that point (10 times as it happened).
The numbers I came to were never about trying to make a point that MH screw developers - I cleared that one up a couple of times already. Like I said a few times, I don't expect anyone held a gun to their head and I think MH is, in principle, a great idea.
Someone brought up the cost of hiring customer support as a reason why we should be more understanding. I felt that should hardly be an issue when the sale had gone so well. That's where that all came from.
I'm pretty tired of trying to make the same point, which was that it was always about a lack of communication - something that costs you nothing. I think you guys have finally done the right thing by the orders and that's to be applauded - it must have been a nightmare. I just think you made a real error the way you communicated (or not).
I don't suppose you're ever going to concede anything on that front though, which is fine, it's your forum. At least I got a smiley out of you.
(ewiplayer - Apple-option-E for empty cache in Safari. That part of the conversation was several pages back. We're picking over the bones now.).
This forum thread has gone too far.
What I want to know is how can people who were locked out of here the last day be able to still get the apps.
I tried multiple times that last day and each time the connection the server stopped. I posted in here about the problem.
I have not recieved my credit card statement for the month so I am not sure if I was even charged.
I am in the U.S., I (tried to) paid by credit card, and I did not recieve and email.
All my information was inputted correctly. I did not try more than two times because I was afraid of being double charged.
Is there any hope for me? Or am I just going to have to keep waiting till I recieve an email notification that says my credit card did come through last week.
Thank you for any help.
I also emailed the help email address last week but I am sure I way down on the list for people to get to.
Last edited by circe (January 28, 2008 5:27 pm)
Wow.
just..
wow.
First, thank all you guys. You've been reasonable and very forgiving, and I do appreciate that.
There's no way I can address the last day of posts now, I'll try to hit the highlights quickly (as I need to get back to clearing charges, emailing people, etc...).
1. Circe, there's not a specific answer to that, especially not one I can post here. If you've PMed or emailed me, I will get to you and I will answer you (or our other support staff will).
2. The cleared charges for credit cards is much, much more difficult and complicated than makes any sense to me. I'll post later explaining a little more (it will be stickied), and I try to put a link in here as well. The short version is, if you can send proof to us that the charges are on your card, we'll get them refunded - and that is probably the quickest way to individual satisfaction for you (despite how you might feel about us asking you to do any more work, which I understand). Again, more details later as I need to do a little more work there. This might be a good place to mention that everyone involved with MH is working a lot and sleeping very little, and for some of them it's been a few weeks of that. So that's why I keep saying thank you for your patience - we really do thank you, and we do understand it's been needed for more than you (or we) would like.
3. speaking of which - Apology letter / email: I've done what I can at the moment, but I understand again what you're asking for. If you wouldn't mind giving us a week or so to work through all the real, urgent issues of licenses and duplicate charges and what-not, I won't forget about this and will see what we can do. No promises of course, as someone pointed out I'm a worker here.
4. Someone mentioned my email address (no worries, didn't bother me at all and I appreciate you distorting it for spambots). I am now set up with official email, so directorate08@macheist.com gets to the support staff (including me).
I'm sure there's a ton more that I missed, but basically thank you guys for sticking around, being reasonable far beyond what's required or even expected, and being forgiving. There were some mistakes made, but I appreciate how you all acknowledged all the good things from the MacHeist bundle. At the end of the day, that will soften even John's heart.
Ok, got to get to work. See you all on the email side.
Whistle while you work. Patience is key.
Are you from outside the US? y/n: NO
Did you receive email receipts for your purchases? y/n: YES
Did you use Paypal or CC? Credit Card
Been charged 2 times, please credit my CC for one of the bundles.
Thank you,
geronimo
Again step the type of post I was looking for. I'm sorry that the refunds are such a pain! You would think that computers would make life easier EXACTLY for this situation. It's unfortunate that this is such a nightmare for everyone involved! We as customers weren't happy but at least we got our sleep over the last two weeks.
Of course trying to clean up the mess has priority, take you're time, then everyone get some sleep and time off that long we should be able to wait !
Then and only then you can come back and give us the scoop (if you still feel like it) . Thanks to all the people in the background working away.
I find it amazing how complicated it must be and never imagined it to be such a huge deal.
Phillyman
Last edited by phillyman (January 29, 2008 12:29 am)
When I went to bed (at 1:30 am) I forgot to post a link to my update post, so here it is:
http://www.macheist.com/forums/viewtopi … 65#p103565
phillyman, glad that was what you were looking for. Yes, this is one of those cases where you kind of shake your head and say "I didn't think a company like Paypal would have this bad of an interface". We're working some different ways to take the Paypal issues out of the loop so we can resolve issues faster. The good news is, many people do have transaction IDs and that lets us solve their cases pretty quickly compared to the other issues.
We (support) hope to have emailed everyone in this thread over the next 2-3 days. It may be shorter or longer depending on how long it takes to investigate each individual case (and 13 pages is a lot of reading ), but we hope to at least start the process with most of you soon. I will continue to keep you updated.
Whistle while you work. Patience is key.
At the risk of fanning the flames, I feel I need to put in my 2 cents. Step has been amazing, and he's the only reason I'm even considering spending money on this next year.
If John's words were the only company response I received, this would be my last MacHeist involvement, period. There isn't any excuse for John, as a representative of the company, to insult his customers in any way, shape, or form. At the very least, there should be an apology on the front page of MacHeist.com for this entire mess.